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Turkish Navy to Escort More Ships to Gaza

— Filed under: Breaking News, Politics & Government
MEKO 200 TN type frigates of the Turkish Navy ...

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In a late-breaking development, Turkey has announced that they will send more ships to aid Gaza, and that this time they'll be accompanied by the Turkish Navy. This is a provocative and dangerous move, and one that is sure to raise tensions in the region.

The implications of Turkey's threat are unknown at this time. Avi Trengo, a columnist at an Israeli news site, implies (before Turkey's announcement) that in a showdown between the two countries, Israel is likely to cave first.

You read it here first!

Phlegm's picture

Oh dear... do we have the

Oh dear... do we have the beginnings of a standoff?

Ethan's picture

the next few days will tell

That was a really boneheaded move on the part of Israel. Turkey was one of the few muslim countries they had some ties with. I doubt it will evolve into any sort of armed conflict however. Turkey has a poweful navy and both are allies of the US. Both navies use German submarines though. The Germans still make the best U-boats!
The Israel blockade of Gaza is pretty inhumane however and not to mention their policy of bulldozing the homes of family members of a suicide bomber.

Phlegm's picture

Here's a column with some

Here's a column with some background on the blockade of Gaza:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ahmed-moor/breaking-the-israeli-egyp_b_594...

FROGMAN's picture

YOU TOTALLY, THEY SHOULD JUST

YOU TOTALLY, THEY SHOULD JUST LET ALL THE SHIPS COME IN AND WORRY ABOUT THE ROCKET'S LATER ON.. JUST HAVE THERE CITIZEN'S TRY TO DODGE THE ROCKET'S THAT WILL GET LAUNCHED BY THE CHICKEN SHIT HAMAZ GROUPS HU.!?

Kuncen's picture

Thanks!

Frogman, please don't type in ALL CAPITALS. It's the equivalent of shouting, and it's considered bad Internet manners.

Thanks for your contribution though!

Kuncen

viceroy 's picture

i totally disagree...i think

i totally disagree...i think brave Israeli soldiers should be given a rest from having to murder dangerous terrorist bringing food supplies to nourish chicken heart Gazans who use sticks and stone and other home made weapons of mass destruction to fight the Israeli brave-hearts armed to their teeth seated in their armored vehicles or flying 3000ft above sea level trying to protect their peaceful citizens living on a non-occupied land more than 1 of whom have been killed while trying to dodge Hamas' deathly hollow tin rockets ...

...it already has a lot to worry about...gaza's siege, importing human friendly cruise missiles and f-16's, massacring innocent humans, building the china wall, upbringing its peaceful nuclear weapons program and bringing stability to the middle east...i mean give the guy a break for God's sake...

after all...gazans are way better at dodging cluster bombs and enduring hunger and thirst than you think...

Denis Murrell's picture

The Israeli Response

*From Bren Carlill in today's Melbourne 'Age'

Let's start with the basics. Since Hamas seized control in 2007, it has been the de facto sovereign power of Gaza. As sovereign, it has launched attacks against Israel. As such, Israel declared itself to be in a state of war against Hamas-run Gaza. Israel has frequently stated that when Hamas agrees to live in peace with Israel, peaceful relations will ensue.

Due to this state of war, Israel enforces a military and naval blockade. The blockade is not designed to starve Gaza into submission; it is designed to deny Hamas the ability to fight effectively. Article 23 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (which concerns the protection of civilians during warfare) makes clear that if goods entering enemy territory contribute to the enemy's war effort, they can be blocked.

Israel enforces a maritime blockade because Hamas has previously shipped in weapons. Israel wants all goods going into Gaza to cross Gaza-Israel land borders. That way, Israel can inspect the goods, ensure there are no weapons or war materiel in them, and send them through.

And a lot of goods go through. Last year, some 738,000 tonnes of goods went from Israel into Gaza. That's more than 2000 tonnes per day. By contrast, the seized flotilla carried 10,000 tonnes of aid, equivalent to only five days at the Gaza-Israel border. The flotilla was not about improving humanitarian conditions; it was about confronting Israel.

Israel told flotilla organisers the aid could be transferred across the Gaza-Israel land border. (It still will be.) The flotilla could also have co-operated with Egypt or the UN in order to help Palestinians, but refused to do so. Helping Palestinians wasn't its goal, confronting Israel was.

Israel's maritime blockade of Gaza is legal according to articles 93-104 of the 1994 San Remo treaty on maritime warfare. Israel told the flotilla it was about to enter conflict waters and was not permitted to do so. The ships informed Israel of their intent to enter these waters. Israel commandeered the ships, according to Article 98 of the above-mentioned treaty.

Five of the six ships were captured without violence. Israeli troops boarding the sixth ship were met with violence from the moment they landed. Footage released makes clear the activists used steel pipes, slingshots, knives and Molotov cocktails from the beginning. Activists attempted to wrest guns out of Israeli soldiers' hands. Israel responded with non-lethal force. Footage aired on Australian television on Monday shows an Israeli soldier attempting to only shove an activist off him, despite being repeatedly stabbed.

It was only after activists took guns from Israeli soldiers and used them against those soldiers that Israel opened fire. The Fourth Geneva Convention is clear about this. Article 5 states that if a civilian takes up arms against a soldier, the civilian becomes a combatant.

The situation on the boats is thus clear. The boats were attempting to break a military blockade. After issuing a warning, the soldiers attempted to commandeer the boats, and were set upon by the activists. At a certain point, which came after activists opened fire on Israeli troops, these troops felt their lives were in imminent danger. They thus fired in order to defend themselves.

There is much more to this story. The leading organisation behind the campaign, IHH, has had links to Hamas and other jihadi organisations since at least the 1990s; one of the organisers, Huwaida Arraf, has said she supports Palestinian violence against Israel - hardly a true peace activist.

But the essence of the story is simple: some very cynical people manipulated some very naive people into an armed attack against soldiers. The better trained and armed soldiers won the battle, but the cynical people won the PR war.

Terry's picture

Thank you for this complete

Thank you for this complete and logical analysis in the face of all of the hype and hysteria now going the rounds of the web.

Phlegm's picture

Rebuttal

Denis Murrell wrote:
The blockade is not designed to starve Gaza into submission; it is designed to deny Hamas the ability to fight effectively.

That may not have been the intention, but it's certainly the result. The very fact that you have to state that it wasn't intentional indicates the same.

Denis Murrell wrote:
Helping Palestinians wasn't its goal, confronting Israel was.

Agreed.

Denis Murell wrote:
They thus fired in order to defend themselves.

Defend themselves after rappelling onto a boat from a helicopter? They were on the attack, plain and simple. If they feared for their lives, they shouldn't have tried to board the ship.

Denis Murell wrote:
The better trained and armed soldiers won the battle, but the cynical people won the PR war.

So the soldiers were successful in winning the battle vs. the non-soldiers (big surprise), and they lost the PR war (again, big surprise). When you make a retarded move like Israel did, the world responds. It's not rocket science.

Anonymous's picture

thank you! finally someone

thank you! finally someone with a brain who thinks before they bell ache with a pouring of emotional dribble.

Brandon's picture

Denis, to "start with the

Denis, to "start with the basics" one does not start with "Hamas seizing control ...". Basically, Hamas was elected by the population. Do I really have to read any more of your post?

Anonymous's picture

I would like to enlighten you

I would like to enlighten you with some points.

Lets start with your first point about Hamas allegedly seizing control of Gaza:

This information is false whether you like it or not. Hamas was ELECTED by the Palestinian people using the favoured method of Westernised countries like America who promote democracy. No one put a gun to the Palestinian people's head and told them to vote for Hamas. They did this of their own accord and because they were fed up with the puppet led control of Fatah and they realised that Hamas was the only party that stood a decent chance against the oppression of their people. So, is it right to call Hamas a "terrorist" party? I think not. Mainly because they are doing simply what Israel has been doing. Defending their people against the injustice caused by the Zionists in the form of restricted aid, daily bombings and Jewish settlements that have sprung up on their land. What would you do if someone did this to where you were living? Would you negotiate for peace, knowing they will breach the terms or would you be prepared to deal with it by using a gun and making sure that would deter any one who was trying to do the same? The people of Gaza voted Hamas because they wanted to, so it was a fair and democratic election. So why are America and Israel calling them "terrorists" when their only crime is to stand up for the people of Palestine?

What is Israel so scared of? A few rockets that hardly injures or kills anyone and which justifies their actions to use lethal force in the form of tanks and planes against rocks and stones? Isn't this a very hard handed approach? Why is Israel so hell bent on destroying Palestine and the important utilities that the Palestinian people have come to rely so heavily on like water and electricity.

Thankfully, a few people in the world have woken up and realised how Israel really works, through fear, oppression and the slaughter/displacement of an entire nation. The flotilla was their to make a point, to highlight the plight of the Palestinians. The way you describe Israel "giving out tonnes of aid" makes it sound like the Palestinian people need to beg and scrape to make a living.

The confrontation took place around 60 miles outside of Israeli waters and in international waters. The whole point in having international waters is that people can move freely but no, Israel "the land grabbing country" now wants to start extending it's own boundaries of water. You are saying that "Israel's maritime blockade of Gaza is legal" but that is complete crap. So, you are saying Israel is a country that follows laws? What about when it launched it's devastating attack on the oppressed people of Gaza? Where did the rule book go then? And now you are trying to justify Israel's heavy handed approach to a ship in international waters by stating a few laws. If Israel was truly a follower of the law, then it would not oppress, murder, displace and kill the innocent civilians of Gaza. Israel feels that it only needs to follow laws which they only agree with. This arrogance will lead to the State of Israel falling in the next 20 years.

Your next point is about the violence incurred upon the Israeli soldiers. First of all, they had no right boarding that ship in international waters, that's the whole point of international waters, they are for everyone and not only for Israeli commandos to do as they please. As regards to the Israeli boarding, let me rephrase that. How would you feel if someone invaded your property with a gun(you do not know if it is real) and started frightening the life out of your kids? How would you feel? Would you want revenge? Of course you would, and you would probably grab the first opportunity to strike back at the attacker? Israel here is in the wrong, If they had boarded the ship in Israeli waters, then their action would had been justified. But they did not and as it was international waters, the activists actions could be justified. If the Israeli navy chose to board in international waters, then they would be at their peril to have done so. As regards to your law book, you could stick that in the bin when it concerns Israel because they are not terribly fond of laws that restrict them to do what they want so they should not hide behind it when the crap hits the fan, so to speak.

See again, the issue of "terrorists and Jihadists". How can you distinguish one from another? One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Just because your order does not fit the bill, it does not mean you have to classify that organisation as a terrorist. If we ask people in the Muslim world, at least 95% would say the real terrorist is America and Israel. This terrorist and Jihadists labelling is just a difference of opinion. The activist uttering those words could be justified as Israel and America would like to eradicate these "terrorists" through their "war on terror". Either way, both parties want to eradicate each other.

Hanan's picture

"I would like to enlighten you"

Very well said. I truly think that people should research issues as opposed to just believing the first thing they read.

Anonymous's picture

So why were the rest of the

So why were the rest of the people on the 4 other ships who were non violent treated violently removed from international waters and treathened with death when brought into isreal??

Anonymous's picture

I'm puzzled...WHO gives

I'm puzzled...WHO gives Israel the RIGHT to CONTROL the Palestinians????

timedesign's picture

the World Health Organisation

the World Health Organisation gave Israel the right? I'm puzzled too.

Anonymous's picture

Israeli tactic: 1) Initiate a

Israeli tactic:
1) Initiate a violent confrontation where Israel cannot lose because of its military superiority.
2)Wait for the desperate reaction to their violent confrontation.
3)Justify mass murder with that reaction.

Sorry Israel, you've done this so many times, even those not paying attention are beginning to notice.

Brandon's picture

You've got it nailed!

You've got it nailed! Observing since the 60s, we see the same process.

Denis Murrell's picture

These people on the boats

These people on the boats knew exactly what to expect from Israel. They must have known that if they played around with Israel, they'd at the least get their asses moistened in the Mediterranean if not succumb to a few Israeli bullets. Israel never plays games. It's a country that has been at war virtually since its inception and founding in 1948, surrounded as it is by enemy states that would be happy to wipe it from the face of the earth and with a largely antagonistic United Nations to contend with. It's easy for people with comfortable lives in Australia and other Western nations to sit back and criticize. In the situation that Israel was born and now exists, it is like a cornered tiger, and if approached it will not merely snarl and spit but will attack with open claws and bared fangs.

Denis Murrell's picture

The Israelis took the Gaza

The Israelis took the Gaza strip after the last war when it was again attacked by the Arab states. They've kept it as a security buffer.The Gaza Strip got its current boundaries when fighting ended in the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, with an Agreement declaring that the demarcation line was not to be an international border. The Gaza Strip continued to be occupied by Egypt. Israel then occupied it following the Six-Day War. A Palestinian Authority was set up as an interim administrative body to govern Palestinian population centres, with Israel maintaining control of Gaza Strip's airspace, some of its land borders and territorial waters, until a final agreement could be reached. However, no agreement could be reached and Israel then unilaterally pulled out from Gaza in 2005; however, the UN still considers Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip. Israel denies this.
Actually, control of the Gaza area is in the hands of Hamas, an organization that won civil parliamentary Palestinian Authority elections in 2006 and took over de facto government in the Gaza Strip from the Palestinian Authority by own political maneuvering and using its armed militia. It consolidated power by removing the Palestinian Authority's security forces with violence. Hamas' aim is to obliterate Israel and therefore it uses the Gaza Strip as a launch pad for attacks on the Israeli nation, hence Israel's blockade.

Anonymous's picture

ISRAEL IS BECOMING MORE &

ISRAEL IS BECOMING MORE & MORE LIKE NAZI Germany, how bitterly, Ironic!

If Israelis do not like their location, that is them being surrounded by enemy states, they can afford to buy their own private Islands & live there in Peace, instead of treating others INHUMANELY.
How can anyone deffend the unfair treatment of innocent people losing their land, homes & being forced to live under an Evil Apartheid regime, that is intent on the dissemination of the Palestinians? The people are deliberately being Oppressed by an Elitist Extremist Regime. They are homeless & hungry & expected to accept their fate? How HYPOCRITICAL...Does this behaviour not mirror...FASCISM of the NAZIS??????
What gives Israel the Right to CONTROL what goes in & out of Gaza? Obviously, Equal Rights only apply to Israelis.
Yahweh punished the Israelites before for their Evil Ways & he can do it again!

Denis Murrell's picture

You neglected to read the

You neglected to read the instructions.....'Be open-minded. Be intelligent. Be respectful.'

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

like NAZI Germany.

That's a really bad comparison.

Anonymous's picture

........ISRAELI CITIZENS

.
Israelis have a right to fear Crayons falling into the hands of little kids...
...Have you seen the new "color Explosion " Crayons? Have a look . If I was Israeli, I wouldnt want kids of the world to have Crayons..especially the kids I keep as my own personal prisoners in thier OWN HOMES..Then again, If I was an Israeli, I wouldnt have a brain. The citizens of that country do not and never had a sincere, legitimate, organized peace community. And HAVE YOU SEEN WHAT THEY ACCEPT FOR TELIVISION PROGRAMMING??

Denis Murrell's picture

Your comment is, I'm afraid

Your comment is, I'm afraid rather too outrageous to reply to. Racist too and illegal under the anti-discrimination laws of most democratic nations. Suffice to say that whether you agree or not, Israel is a recognized legitimate state, has been since 1948 and no amount of blathering by you or any other anti-Semites is going to change that in the foreseeable future. It was the people of Gaza that voted the violent Hamas organization in to power. They therefore must live with that and Israel's natural responses.

Anonymous's picture

Mr Murrell, You should try

Mr Murrell, You should try doing what you preach....OPENMINDEDNESS. Anyone who points out Israels WRONG DOINGS IS an ANTI-SEMITE! The usual Arrogant, Ignorant & TYPICALLY HYPOCRITICAL Attitude! Has Israel done NO wrong??? I simply believe in EQUAL RIGHTS! Do YOU???

PLEASE quote a racist & illegal comment, so that I may see the error of my ways.
NO Amount of waffling about the History of the State of Israel will justify it's evil behaviour! Hamas can be violent & Israel is NO different!!!
Of course, there have been atrocities from both sides...BUT
Why has Israel MORE legal 'violent' RIGHTS than the Palestinians? And I repeat, What gives Isreal the RIGHT to CONTROL what goes in & out of Gaza & generally CONTROL the Palestinians? Please educate me?

Your quote below....is sounding Dangerously FASCISTIC!
"Israel is a recognized legitimate state, has been since 1948 and no amount of blathering by you or any other anti-Semites is going to change that in the foreseeable future. It was the people of Gaza that voted the violent Hamas organization in to power. They therefore must live with that and Israel's natural responses"
EQUAL RIGHTS & JUSTICE FOR ALL...NOT JUST THE 'CHOSEN'!!!

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

um

Anonymous wrote:
Your quote below....is sounding Dangerously FASCISTIC!
"Israel is a recognized legitimate state, has been since 1948 and no amount of blathering by you or any other anti-Semites is going to change that in the foreseeable future. It was the people of Gaza that voted the violent Hamas organization in to power. They therefore must live with that and Israel's natural responses"

Anonymous do you even know what Fascism means?

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

israel

The Israeli government no more represents the whole of that nation than the current administration in the United States does.

Both seem to have come about because of unacknowledged political coups – and a naïve voting public that is willing to believe any crap a politician hands them as long as it seems to agree with what they already believe.

Winston Smith's picture

The word you're looking for is fascist.

Anonymous wrote:
Your quote below....is sounding Dangerously FASCISTIC!

The word you're looking for is "fascist". No need for "-ic".

MrShaw's picture

Fascismo

Winston Smith wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Your quote below....is sounding Dangerously FASCISTIC!

The word you're looking for is "fascist". No need for "-ic".

Actually, because the noun is "The Quote", it would be more correct to use the adjective "Fascistic". The term "Facist" is actually a noun and perhaps is now used as an adjective because of frequent misuse? I read with interest that we have Mussolini to thank for the introduction of this word into World language.

Winston Smith's picture

I stand corrected. :)

I stand corrected. :)

Anonymous's picture

First of all, Israel is a

First of all, Israel is a terrorist country. It doesn't obey international law, invades a country and keeps it under blockade cruelly (even restraining their access to water), and acquires nuclear weapons when threating countries which don't have nuclear but might have nuclear weapon with war.
The palestinians today live (at least try to live) under no better conditions than the Jews in Warsaw Ghetto in 1930s-40s.
The operation against the ships carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza, which has activist from over 30 countries, was carried out in international waters (approximately 70 miles away from Israeli territorial sea), was a terrorist attact and it is same as the attacks of pirates in Somalia to civil ships.

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

and

The United States and England have not done similar acts in the past? Iraq war?

Anonymous's picture

Excuse me

Supposing that they did does that make it ok to commi such acts !!!
And I've never heard that the US or the UK have ever hijaked 'civillian' boats in international waters
capturing and killing unarmed civillians and toetuing them by leaving them on the deck under the scourching sun
with no water for 6 hours (we are talking About women and children and old people here) military soldiers throw blast grenades
and smoke grenades at them .....
I can tell u with confidence nope never heard of a state doing such acts
on our modern times except israel ........
And all of this is one percent to what happens daily to palestenian civillans

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

why, did you fart?

I am not saying that Israel is right in 'committing such acts'.

The US have killed more Civilians in Irag and Afganistan than they have the enemy's much like Israel fighting 'Terrorist's' in Palestine. What is the difference between using a drone to kill civilians to boarding a ship and shooting people? What is the difference between torturing people on the deck of a ship in the sun to torturing people in a secret prison in Cuba or Pakistan? The French boarded the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland, New Zealand in 1985. Blew it up and killed a photographer.

This situation is Sh1t full stop. We can point fingers and say look at what they are doing and ignore the fact that our nations also do the same. Do we all support the war in some way? Are we not supporting it by backing this country and backing that country? You did this so its okay if they do that! What do you expect? We wage war thats what we do. If we aren't fighting another country we will be fighting the neighbor across the street who plays that crappy music at 10 to midnight when im trying to sleep i got work tomorrow. Send in the Tanks!!!! Nah that will take to long just drop a bomb on his house.

FROGMAN's picture

WAIT SO TRYING TO RAID A SHIP

WAIT SO TRYING TO RAID A SHIP BECAUSE THEY DONT WANNA DOCK PROPERLY TO HAVE THE SHIPPED CHECKED FOR WEAPONS IS THE SAME AS SOMALI PIRATES ATTACKING SHIPS, TAKING THE PEOPLE OF THE SHIP HOSTAGE FOR MONEY OR ENDING UP KILLING THEM IS THE SAME THING....??? YOU NEED A REALITY CHECK SON

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

wha?

Was that directed at me? ps. no need to CAPS i can read small letters.

Nabil Parwez's picture

Palestine

Israel seized Palestinian land,was it expecting a warm welcome from the people whose homes it took away?
Were they expecting people to walk out of their homes throwing away the keys in the hands of outside settlers,saying,'take it,it's yours!'
The entire concept of Israel being a 'legitimate state' is flawed. Human being make mistakes,acceptance of israel as a 'legitimate state' is a one of those grave errors of man. You see,if someone walked into your home with a gun and pushed u on the street,you'd fight back,with whatever have,this is exactly what Palestinians,including Hamas have been doing for the past 60 years or more,so therefore,the blockade of Gaza with the pretext of 'wanting to prevent Hamas attacks as a measure of self defence' is baseless. It is a sham,and the world is conned into believed this.
Attacking a humanitarian convoy in international waters,with international auditors and experts who made sure that it was only aid being delievered to Gaza and not weapons is an act of cowardice,malice and put's the name of good jewish people who refuce to be as barbaric as most zionists to shame.
Shame on you Israel.
And shame on all and anyone of you for even trying to justify the crimes of Israel.

MrShaw's picture

Shooting the messenger

There has been a lot of response to the article that Denis Murrell has posted within. Guy's there are some responses that are not even remotely respectful. I think you need to read the first line of the article, to remind yourself that this is not written by Denis, it is from an article published in The Age, written by a reporter by the name of Bren Carlill. Seizing upon his words and venting in an uncivilised manner only shows that you have not truly taken the time to understand why this article has been posted here in the first place. Discussion. After all what is accomplished by a verbal war? As much as a real war. (I am secretly hoping the Denis Murrell is the one who produced beautiful images such as this http://www.yansworld.com.hk/Dennis%20Murrel/CP1.html)

Anonymous's picture

.......Blame a Million Victims

.
...Blame the victim, The prisons are full of violent offenders who blame thier victims, "He should have handed over his wallet".

Over the past 60 years the US-UK Colonial Outpost, Israel has concocted a thousand different ever changing ways to blame thier millions of victims.

Denis Murrell's picture

Be open-minded. Be

Be open-minded. Be intelligent. Be respectful. I do not read any comments, and therefore do not reply, to any comments that even appear to be from those people with a closed, narrow mind, from those that have not written intelligently, or from those who are abusive. be polite and succint and I will happily reply to you. Remember that in this world, there are many opinions and that you should respect everyone's opinion, even if you do not necessarily agree.

Denis Murrell's picture

Do I know what a Fascist

Do I know what a Fascist is?
Yes, there are many kinds of fascists because people throw the word around with complete abandon and use it in many different contexts and situations.
For me, one kind of fascist is a person who sends an abusive, anonymous reply to something he's read and doesn't agree with. Someone who is too timid to put his name to the stuff he writes. Does that apply to you?

Brandon's picture

"For me, one kind of fascist

"For me, one kind of fascist is a person who sends an abusive, anonymous reply "
That's reallllly stretching the word's meaning. Basically you're saying you call anyone you find dislikeable a "fascist". Kinda like the term "anti-semite" ...

A fascist person is one who condones and supports the use of humans for the means of business. Nazis were also fascists not because they acted evil towards Jews and others, but because they had a system to use Jews and others as chattle for the sake of industry. "Corporatism" is another word for it.

I imagine you know that, but succumb as many do to using the term like an American would use "asshole", or "son of a bitch".

Kuncen's picture

Passion, emotion, and frustration

@Anonymous - you'll get a better reception here and get more respect if you register for an account rather than posting as "Anonymous". Not posting in ALL CAPS would probably help too.

Everyone's got quite worked up about this. That's not surprising - it's a powerful and emotional issue. I'm encouraged by the fact that, unlike many sites, the discourse has been mostly respectful and intelligent, and has not degenerated into childlike name-calling. Passion, emotion, and frustration are not wrong on this site. Disrespect, rudeness, and personal attacks are.

Kuncen

Gil's picture

Oh

"Five of the six ships were captured without violence" ??

Are you nuts? Oh dear! Please define violence for me? If killing innocent 10 people is not violence then what is it? In international waters, you can't even touch a ship, I2m not mentioning jumping or firing or capturing. If you do, of course they're going to defend their ships. They had hundreds of people including women and child. Also you know there're thousands of protests happening in the world every year, some of them yelling some of them acts more heavily. Should we kill'm all if they throw us stones or struggle with us? Yeah we can't kill them, you're wrong. I repeat, if a ship which's in international waters and trying to be careful about not passing through the Israel's waters Israel and its army has no right to attack these ships.

I'm asking... Why Israel is not showing the hole attacking scenes, why just showing the people who throw out soldiers from the ship and hit them with sticks and stuff. These people just got flag pipes; you know the stuff that helps you for waving your flag. And they throw some water. I guess that took 10 seconds after the tiny attack they bombed and fired heavy guns. I just can't get this. Israel was sure that they gonna get the ship with weapon or not. They had the chance for not using their guns. They intentially do that. Maybe they're trying to send a message? Do the have to kill these people? Absolutely they don't.

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

What would you do.

If i was on that ship and an armed solider repelled down i'd be fighting for my life and the lives of the women and children on the boat as well.

Anonymous's picture

There is not such news, u r

There is not such news, u r just lying..

Winston Smith's picture

New links about Turkish Navy

Uh, read the article. There are links for you to click and read all about it.

Here's another which says "the head of the group didn't discount the possibility of Turkey's semi-official participation in funding or organizing [the new flotilla]": http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/activists-we-have-funding-...

And another link, saying that Israel is preparing for the Turkish Navy to get involved: http://www.huliq.com/1/93847/israel-worried-turkey-may-send-navy-ships-n...

Hanan's picture

Humans

The bottom line - Palestinians are humans too, and Hamas was democratically voted into government, whether you like it or not. My family witnessed massacares by the hands of Isrealis and thrown out of their homes thus making them refugees. The fact of the matter is that my family and I do not have the "right to return" to our home, but Jewish settlers do have a right to move into a country they have never stepped foot in - simply because they are Jewish... If I were attacked like Palestinians are (every single day) I would most certainly fight back and any person who has the guts to stand up for what they believe in would fight back. I have nothing but the utmost respect for any humanitarian that would risk their lives to bring aid to people in need, and shed light on a situation that has been going on for generations. If you have not lived amongst Palestinians and experienced firsthand what they go through day in and day out, then I would recommend that you do not defend a government who has blatant disregard for human life. Israel has a right to defend itself, absolutely. However, every human being living on this earth is afforded that same right. Please don’t get it mistaken – this bloodshed has been going on for many, many years, and the Palestinians have been looked down upon as if they are the violent animals provoking the situation. This is simply not the case see second sentence above). I am a proud Palestinian who is not violent, but I, like many people have a lot of pride and just want to live my life and raise my children to the best of my ability. This is the goal of my brothers and sisters living in Palestine and the goal of many Jewish people who want to live in peace.

Phlegm's picture

Israelis speak out

U.S. Representative Barney Frank says "As a Jew, I'm Ashamed": http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/02/barney-frank-as-a-jew-ashamed_n...

Israeli patriot & veteran calls flotilla attack "a shameful sin": http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-01/israeli-patrio...

Despite both opinions being basically against Israel's actions, I did find them to be fairly objective and open-minded. They accepted the fact that the flotilla protesters weren't saints, but still condemn Israel's actions.

Anonymous's picture

well said Hanan

well said Hanan

Mahfooz Hasan's picture

Will be interesting to see

Will be interesting to see the response from Israel. A courageous move by Turkey where all other politicians have been cowardly and spineless. I'm hoping Israel finally get some morals and removing the blockade of Gaza.

Trog's picture

I wish the British Royal

I wish the British Royal Navey would stand along side the Turkish navey too to support the next aid flotilla.

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

RNZN

Alongside the Royal New Zealand Navy!Which i might add i might be joining! Wouldnt that p1ss Anonymous off?

Moe's picture

Israelis are not Nazis

The difference between the nazis n israelis is atleast the nazis is trying to hide their crimes...

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

there is more than a difference than that..

I dont think you can compare any counrty to nazi germany. i think the closest would be the US.

Pants's picture

Huh? You can't just throw

Huh? You can't just throw that out there, you have to justify that kind of a bomb.

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

Justify?

It's my opinion and i personally think that the US was responsible for killing thousands of its own citizens by dreaming up and carrying out 9/11 and starting a war in the middle east. Thats right US government flew planes into the WTC. There is a lot of information out there which i tend to consider a little more closer to the truth than what american propaganda has told us about the event. Sounds like something NAZI germany might have considered. Or Stalinist Russia

Pants's picture

Well that's all I meant -

Well that's all I meant - "explain your statement". Originally you just said the US was like Nazi Germany without any explanation. Still can't say I agree with you, but at least now I know what you were trying to say.

Anonymous's picture

.... NAZI - STYLE FANATICS ( for sure ! )

In 1945-1948, the US-UK Military-Industrial Complex, fearing massive loss of business as a result of the end of WWII, amassed its war left-over material in Palestine. And transported, armed, trained, and unleashed a bunch of East-European followers of a Nazi-style fanatic sect (Zionists) on the natives to conduct barbaric ethnic cleansing and slaughter.

-Israel, the last remaining European colony will soon join its ideaological cohort, Apartheid South Africa, in the trash bin of history.

And feel free to re-paste this widely. Thank You ~

Ethan's picture

what a debate!

well that last one by Anonymous is just plain crazy talk. For one thing if you actually look at the history the British armed and trained the Palestinians and tried to keep the peace as long as they could before pulling out. The rest of that post is ridiculous crap that I won't bother responding to except to say Australia (where I live)is a remaining European colony and is doing just great thanks! And the one before that by Stealth, you cannot be serious dude. "The US is the closest to Nazi Germany" that has no basis in facts whatsoever. The two have nothing in common at all.

Anonymous's picture

.... ZIONIST FANATICISM

Ethan wrote:
well that last one by Anonymous is just plain crazy talk. For one thing if you actually look at the history the British armed and trained the Palestinians and tried to keep the peace as long as they could before pulling out. The rest of that post is ridiculous crap that I won't bother responding to except to say Australia (where I live)is a remaining European colony and is doing just great thanks! And the one before that by Stealth, you cannot be serious dude. "The US is the closest to Nazi Germany" that has no basis in facts whatsoever. The two have nothing in common at all.

I normally dont waste my time dealing with a million ZIONNIST complaining,..but here goes..(*puke sound)
If you dont agree that ZIONISM is merely fanaticism and Racist. Very similar to that which the NAZI Party embraced, then you might like to go read about these things.

You would also benefit ressearching the meaning of COLONYas well.
By your logic = "Austrailia is a colony.. blah blah wah"
Sure they were unti thier prescence was and establishment was managed. And wasnt based on FANATICISM.
.

Anonymous's picture

Agreed I am an American

Agreed I am an American citizen and this country has gone to s**t!!!! America is the new world nazi we invade countries for the hell of it. Iraq< Afghanistan

Anonymous's picture

....RE: ".Ethan"s self imposed lack of reading skills

Ethan wrote:
"..that I won't bother responding to except to say Australia (where I live)is a remaining European colony and is doing just great thanks! And the one before that by Stealth, you cannot be serious dude. "The US is the closest to Nazi Germany" that has no basis in facts whatsoever. The two have nothing in common at all.

LAST REMAINING COLONY meaning "Of Late" or "LATEST" .

Concept of Reading skills.

Anonymous's picture

What is so funny is that

What is so funny is that everyone has justification for anything and everything Israel does? So its ok to starve the people of Gaza into submission when half or even more are probably not even a part of Hamas. It is well known that Israel is backed and supplied by the United States they have superior firepower, manpower, and intelligence then hamas. So why havent they been able to eradicate Hamas because they dont know which people are part of Hamas and who is not. So you tell me should everyone be in Gaza be punished for Hamas? This is inhumane and is just the iceing on the cake of everything else going on in this corrupt world.

Anonymous's picture

..Peace is the Enemy of War Criminal States.

Anonymous wrote:
What is so funny is that everyone has justification for anything and everything Israel does? So its ok to starve the people of Gaza into submission when half or even more are probably not even a part of Hamas. It is well known that Israel is backed and supplied by the United States they have superior firepower, manpower, and intelligence then hamas. So why havent they been able to eradicate Hamas because they dont know which people are part of Hamas and who is not. So you tell me should everyone be in Gaza be punished for Hamas? This is inhumane and is just the iceing on the cake of everything else going on in this corrupt world.

Just tell the supporters to shut up drink some more Kool-aid and murder more innocents who are just trying to hold onto thier rightful homes.

The US created, funds and maintains the state of ISRAEL (Colonial Outpost to be more exact). For the sole purpose of destabilization and war, in order to benefit American Arms Market. We also see today's true face... Wars and killing for the purpose of corporate expansion in general, stealing valuable resources and power from the stubbornly reluctant nationsof IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN, who have been peacefully biding thier time.

It is ridicules to believe the BS that these people spppew. They NEVER want peace.
The War criminal States will never seek world security, as long as there are people left with something to rob, cheat, murder for Just as A Knife Will Never Cut its Own Handle.

Just tell the supporters to shut up drink some more Kool-aid and murder more innocents who are just trying to hold onto thier rightful homes.

MrShaw's picture

Iraq, perhaps not peaceful

Anonymous wrote:
IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN, who have been peacefully biding their time.

Sorry can't agree with this, with regards to Iraq anyway. Iraq has been fought over, been fighting and had fighting within it's own borders since records began. Obviously with peaceful periods, in which many many great things have been produced, influencing a lot of modern day learning and culture. It seems that Iraq is destined to be a place of culture and war at the same time, and is likely to be for the foreseeable future. Peaceful is not a word I would use to describe Iraq, and I doubt that many citizens would either.

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

They should

They Should send in the NZ SAS. They could get it done in a week fulled only by Vegemite Sammies.

Kuncen's picture

Gentlemen, please slow it

Gentlemen, please slow it down and think a little bit before pressing the "Save" button. Some of the recent comments have been mostly unintelligible and basically impossible to understand. In addition, some have bordered on personal attacks, which won't be tolerated here.

I don't want to close this thread to comments, but I will if I have to. Your opinion is certainly valued, but please remember: "Be open-minded. Be intelligent. Be respectful." And register for an account instead of hiding behind anonymity.

Thanks for helping to keep this site a nice place to discuss world events.

Kuncen

Anonymous's picture

...re "Gentlemen"

quote=Kuncen Gentlemen, .."

You cant me me "since I am a female.

- Ms "Colonial Outpost"

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

uh

What? Mrs Anonymous?

Jewish Leftist's picture

Let's see who the real "Nazis" are!

As a Jew living in the United States who is involved in many human rights and civil rights causes, let's examine who the real Nazis are.

The real Nazis are those who say that the Jewish people have no right to a Jewish state, even despite the fact that the US and a dozen European countries are de-facto Christian states and despite the fact that nearly every Arab country is a Muslim state.

The real Nazis are the ones who are saying that the IDF has no right to protect the territorial integrity of the Nation of Israel on the high seas, and that Jewish soldiers have no right to defend themselves just because they're Jewish.

The real Nazis are the people who attempt to use an Armada of hate in order to smuggle dangerous weapons and contraband materials into Gaza.

The real Nazis are the people who willingly voted an anti-semitic, hate-filled, terrorist political party to govern them. One whose stated goal is nothing short of a second Holocaust and wiping the Jewish people off the face of the planet.

The real Nazis today are the ones who were lead in the 1940's by a Grand Mufti who was an ally of Hitler. Who willingly sheltered Nazi war criminals in their lands.

The real Nazis are the enemies of the Jewish people. 60 years after the War On Fascism, in the midst of a new war against Islamofascism, there are people who choose to ignore this basic yet crucial fact, either out of stupidity or because of latent anti-semitism.

Israel has a right to defend itself and they acted in due accordance with the law. ANYBODY saying otherwise is a fascist, a bigot and a maligner - or simply insane.

Winston Smith's picture

Let's keep the Nazis out of

Let's keep the Nazis out of this discussion. Too many people are bringing up that word, and it's mostly irrelevant. It's not a helpful comparison, and it just makes people upset.

Quote:
ANYBODY saying otherwise is a fascist, a bigot and a maligner - or simply insane.

Comments like these are illogical and not helpful, for ANY topic, not just this one. Pre-emptively labeling everyone who disagrees with you as a fascist, bigot, etc. is very closed-minded and childish. Please present your arguments in an intelligent tone, and provide sources to back up your statements.

The_elusive_STEALTH's picture

Raise ya hands up in the air raise ya hands UP!

I raise my hand to being Insane. A bigot no. A Big foot yes my show size is 12. A fascist no. I support the green party! And they are condemning Israel in between a toke break or 3.

Ethan's picture

thats a new one

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"I normally dont waste my time dealing with a million ZIONNIST complaining,..but here goes..(*puke sound)
If you dont agree that ZIONISM is merely fanaticism and Racist. Very similar to that which the NAZI Party embraced, then you might like to go read about these things.

You would also benefit ressearching the meaning of COLONYas well.
By your logic = "Austrailia is a colony.. blah blah wah"
Sure they were unti thier prescence was and establishment was managed. And wasnt based on FANATICISM"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well thats the first time I've been called a Zionist. The rest of this persons comments are personal attacks and made up facts to suit their radical beliefs about the west. I also don't feel like debating with crazy person who posts as anonymous, although "stealing valuable resources and power from the stubbornly reluctant nationsof IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN, who have been peacefully biding thier time." was a pretty funny one and not based on facts at all. Thats a different debate though.

Cillian's picture

Progress of debate

I have found this a quiet interesting read to be honest, With valid and measured points. Especially from The palestinian guy earlier who i thought spoke excellently. as most of us use the term "palestinians" and dont place ourselves in these peoples shoes. My own View is, Regardless of the legality of isreals blockade over Gaza, They have no right to board and capture citizens of a forgien country in international waters. This is an illegal act. Yes they activists on the ships used force, were they right to? there is two views i can see, they could have been peacefull and sat down or they also had a right to defend themselves from harm. In either circumstance Can the use of Deadly force be justified? NO absolutley not. With the power force and sheer equipment of the IDF did they need to resort to shooting people armed with sling shots , in the head and back ? NO.

I cant understand how anyone can defend such actions? Israel as a recognised country (like it or not) has a right to defend itself. The flotilla was Inspected by international mediators and deemed to carry Humanitarian aid. so it had no weapons for use against Israel aboard. so Israel defending itself is not an defence or issue for argument here in my opinion.

The people who were completely non violent on the other four ships were still detained in israeli detention centers and not allowed sleep, they were threatened with death. (confirmed by reports of three irish activists returning home today) And they were deported from a country they did not enter, nor intended to enter. This amounts to kidnapping.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out, i think israel have got away with to much of this behaviour for two long and its time for the international comunity to act.

A final note to "leftist Jew" i agree with nothing you have said, and il refrain from personally abusing you as im sure you come across that often. But you will notice in many posts including mine there was no mention of Religion. Jewish or other wise. and i havent seen anyone say anything about certain religions not being allowed States of their own. I believe you have shown your ignorance of the facts here and set back any rational argument that you might have had. (not that i can see any morsel of one)

Anonymous's picture

England and the Blockade

It may not be a historical fact or it is not a publicized fact, but England has been fighting Arabs and Muslems for over 200 years and it appears to me that placing Israel right on the coast of an Arab country was an act of defiance and a last effort to provoke the Muslem nations. Lord Balfour surely had no idea of the outcome when he petitioned the UK to allow the Jews to stay. So England went for it and signed the Balfour declaration and there has been nothing but killing and bloodshed since.Now if England had the ability to reason this all out they could have come to the same conclusion of the early ambitous Americans, they slaughtered the American Indians, I think they call it ethnic cleansing and genocide and Holocaust to gain the land and imprison the Indians. And the indians have become little better than Social handicapped outcasts.The Arabs are fighting for their land and rights now but will lose in the end.

timedesign's picture

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Well, it's true, Britain has (on and off) fought with Muslim countries a lot over the last few hundred years. But then, Britain has also fought with Hindus, Catholics, Pagans, Protestants, Buddhists, Revolutionaries, Monarchists, Communists, Fascists, Mercantalists, Separatists, Unionists, other British people and the French. I'm sure it's not personal.
If you are interested in other boneheaded bits of British foreign policy, I refer you to the partition of India, the creation of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the invention of concentration camps (Boer War), the Suez Crisis and neutrality in the Spanish Civil War. Among others.

Incidentally, Parliament looked at other locations for Israel (Madagascar was an early favourite) but was petitioned to place it on one of the most bloodstained bits of land on the planet. Unfortunate.
Also, the fact remains that both peoples (Jewish and Arab) have a legitimate claim to call that land their homeland. Therein lies the problem.